 Vegas June 2021 |
| Day 8 - 3-Stud Mix at Orleans |
| Last Updated: 2021-06-18 14:37:23 |
| Starbucks, pool, panini and wrap, on to Orleans. Not even a stop at a liquor store to look at a bottle I badly want but won't badly overpay for.
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| 7-Card Stud, 7-Card Stud 8/b, Razz. Game changes every 8 hands, we sit 8-handed at the table.
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| If it occurs to you that 8 players would require 56 cards and there are only 52 in a deck and wonder how this is possible, especially since you burn 4 cards along the way as well for a total of 60, you would be correct to be concerned. In the unlikely event there are not enough cards in the deck to deal everyone a card, which in theory could happen on 6th street (6*8=48 plus 3 burns at that point is 51 leaving one card and no burn for 7th street), the dealer would deal a community card on the river that everyone would share who remained in the hand.
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| There may be some procedure about mixing up the burn cards with the remaining deck but I've never had to deal with it so I don't know.
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| I have seen this happen a few times online, I have (still) never seen it happen live.
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| And one other note, a few hours into the tournament (ok so I've given a little information away :-) ) there was an announcement that "we are using the old Stud high rule with the double bet".
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| I will assume everyone is familiar with limit style betting where before and after the flop in hold'em the only bet allowed is the amount of the big blind and on the turn and river the amount of the bet is double the big blind.
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| Same in stud. There are antes and "bring-ins" which are typically smaller than what would be a small blind to get action started, but the betting limits on 3rd and 4th streets are what would be a big blind and on 5th, 6th and the river its what would be double a big blind.
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| There is an odd quirk in 7-card stud high (only, not stud 8/b) that if anyone has a pair on 4th street anyone at the table (whether they also have a pair or not) is allowed the option of making the standard bet OR making the double bet that isn't supposed to be allowed until 5th street.
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| Last summer at their annual meeting the Poker Tournament Directors Association (TDA) discussed this rule and decided to abandon it. Basically nobody understood why the rule was put in place, nobody could come up with a good reason for it to exist, so if you follow TDA rules (and the vast majority of casino poker tournaments adhere to them for the most part, but usually have at least a few "house rules") you are not supposed to allow the double bet on 4th street.
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| "House rule" at Orleans - still have the double bet.
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| Register mid second level, take my seat.
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| My tournament started out pretty much the same as the day before. I went a full hour into the tournament without a single playable hand.
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| And here's the thing about stud tournaments - the betting limits always seem to be about double what standard No-Limit Hold'Em blinds would dictate. Well, not "seem", they "are". In theory these hands don't play as "big" because of the limits on betting. You can't just go all-in. When I play in 8-game mix tournaments there are typically several structures used throughout the tournament, and No-Limit Hold'Em and Pot Limit Omaha blinds and antes are typically half of what the blinds and antes are for limit games.
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| The thing that gets people in the most trouble in stud is failing to respect the extra round of betting within these structures. Players who "play every hand" in any tournament structure will inevitably crash and burn, it's just a matter of whether they get lucky and take a few other people out along the way. This is especially pronounced in stud games because the pots end up being so big - when they luck out and win a pot it's a huge boost to their stack allowing to play even more bad hands. But it's a stack killer for them when they don't hit.
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| Picking good starting hands in stud is absolutely critical for success over the course of a tournament. When you enter a hand you are 95% committing yourself to call at least one bet on 4th street. When you call the double bet on 5th street, you are 95% committed to calling a bet on 6th street and at least seeing the river card because unless you are convinced you are drawing dead, even if you have only a few outs the pot is now likely so big you are getting correct odds to call.
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| The point is that you have to avoid repeatedly putting yourself in a position where you only have a 10% chance of winning a pot but you're getting 12-1 and cannot fold. You will kill your chip stack over time by constantly calling down with little chance of winning but you are making a mathematical mistake if you fold.
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| Play strong hands in the first place, don't put yourself in that position over and over.
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| Sermon over, nothing but poker here on out. When I say "stud" I mean "stud high" and when I describe a hand 100% of the time the first two cards are my down cards, the 3rd card is my face up "door card". What they can and can't see matters :-)
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| A7K two diamonds in stud, a Q completes the bet and I just call. I don't remember his runout other than it was rainbow, disconnected and not pairing. I pick up a 10d and decide to lead out and start repping kings. I bet every street when I catch two more sevens on 5th and 6th and a queen on the river, he calls me down and is convinced I caught the 3rd 7 on the river (hehe). I never saw his hand but assume he actually had split queens.
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| Few hands later I give most of that back when I catch a 4-card straight on 4th street (Thus committing me to see the river! This is what I was talking about!) and have to call down on 5th and 6th but miss.
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| I didn't jot down what straight, but I believe I was 7-8-9-T with nobody else who started the hand starting with face cards showing. It's OK to chase open ended straights and flush draws on 4th street against possible pairs as long as you have overcards to everyone still in the hand. You don't want to do it with undercards because if you catch pairs instead they probably aren't winning, but pairing your overcards gives you another way to possibly win the pot.
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| Little bit later in 8/b I have KK2 2 hearts, bring in and call the complete 3 handed with my big, hidden pair. I pick up a 10h, it's clear to me one person is going low and the other is going high. I'm just check-calling every street, river another 10, Kings up is good for high and the person with the obvious low did have one for a chop.
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| Then I had to make a tough river call. Still 8/b I start out with 2-3-5 and we go to 4th street 4 handed, person who completed had a Q, second caller has a face card and the third other person in the pot is showing a 2. As the hand progresses the Q catches nothing but face cards, the 10 folds on 4th or 5th street with an ugly board, the guy with the 2 catches a 4 (which I needed for a straight) a 6 (another of my straight cards) and a face card on 6th. Meanwhile my board runs out (including my starting cards) 2-3-5-7-9-7-4. So by 6th street all I have is a pair that clearly isn't going to be good for high and I'm stuck calling down possibly drawing dead against a possible made 6 for low and just hoping to catch an ace, 4 or 6 (with two of them known to be gone) and get lucky on the low.
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| When I do catch that 4 on the river, the high hand bets and the "low" hand raises. Brutal. I do think for about 10 seconds about folding my hand, nobody does that unless they know they're winning. But pot is too big, I make the crying call. The high 4-bets, "low" calls, I make one more crying call and "low" says "you got it, I was hoping you caught an 8 and would fold".
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| WHEW!!!
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| That was a nice sized half a pot! The high hand was Queens full so my pair of 7s didn't get me a scoop :-)
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| 33600 at the first break, started with 30k, not bad after being card dead.
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| Notice I haven't used the word "Razz" yet. Literally every hand was a low and 2 face cards, 2 lows and one face card or 3 low cards but two of them paired.
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| Finally I get in a hand of Razz!
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| Start out 5-T-4 and decide to complete with a lot of big cards on the board, two callers. I bet a 3 on 4th and a 6 on 5th and everyone folds on 5th.
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| Hand or two later I pick up 3-8-6, borderline but I'll take it. Alas my board runs out 3-8-6-3-3-8 and I fold my full house on 6th street. Ugh. I would have folded on 5th except nobody bet until 6th as my board wasn't the only ugly one, it was just by far the worst one even if it didn't look THAT bad on the surface (6-3-3-8 showing...).
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| Start a stud hand with A-9-A 2 clubs, complete, 3 handed. Lose one when I bet out on a Qc on 4th street, pick up a 4th club on 6th while the other guys board is all over the place, full runout A9AQT77 and aces up are good for a scoop.
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| Hand or two later I have 7-6-7-6 by 4th street, lose to a better two pair. Probably shouldn't have played it, small two pairs can be a recipe for disaster if you don't fill up.
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| Then river trip 10s in 8/b, lose to a rivered trip aces. That hurt. I had all kinds of straight and flush draws with my pair of 10s on 5th street, the other guy had an ace showing but all disconnected low cards so I had to assume he was just going low. Knew I was in trouble when I got raised when I led out on the river but had to call and hope they only had a low. Nope. Turned over A-9-A and actually had no low either but still got a scoop.
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| Then start out with J-7-J with jack the high board card remaining after I completed, caught straight cards on 4th and 5th street but never improved past the pair of jacks.
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| At that point I was down around 23k from the 30k starting stack.
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| Down at 20k things turn around for me.
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| 7-Q-7 in stud, I call a limp with the other guy also showing a 7. Pick up a Q on 4th street and I'm first to act with him showing 7-9. I get blanks on 5th and 6th but bet into his board every street while he runs out 7-9-J-A, I catch the case 7 on the river and my full house is good!
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| Next hand K-T-T and I complete, lead out with a double bet when I catch a ten on fourth street (beware the paired door card!), get one caller but no call on a blank 5th street.
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| Then in 8/b the same guy from my sevens full calls me on every street as I run out A-8-5-3-A-3-A vs his 3-J-T-7 board. Don't know what he had but he should have thought with me showing 5-3-A-3 I probably had a good low and he was calling me down playing for half. Thankfully he didn't river some crazy low and I scoop the pot.
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| Then one of my favorite spots! I love a good freeroll!!!
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| 8/b I start out with 7-4-5-3-A four handed with two people showing no possible low and the other person showing at best an 8-7-6-face low (not in order) that I know I have beat even if they make their 7-low. I have a double gutshot straight draw and a made low against three players who cannot beat my low - and one of the high hands leads into me on 5th street! Naturally I raise.
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| I lead out on 6th and 7th, my 6th street was a blank and my river just gave me a pair of fours which did not end up being good for high. But there is nothing better than being able to bet knowing you cannot lose any chips (they're definitely coming back) and have a shot at taking all of theirs as well!
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| It was a huge 4-handed pot so even half was a nice chunk of change for me!
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| First time all day I finally pick up a big 4-3-A in Razz and nobody wants to play with me. I take antes and bring-ins.
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| 52000 at break, feeling good!
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| Take down a small pot early after the break, then another freeroll!
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| Start out A-3-4-5-7 so exactly the same dynamic against someone showing K-Q-K by 5th street. Alas I run out 8-10 and again miss my straight and chop it up, tho we did take out a short stack.
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| Make no mistake, it was great winning half of those chops! I got a good amount of chips out of them, but those freerolls are huge opportunities to build a big stack and if either had worked out it would have made a huge difference. Those are the spots you dream of...
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| Lose a chunk in Razz starting with 2-4-7 but run out J-K-3-7 against a guy showing 7-8-8-2. Then hidden 8's in stud with a bring in on a 2 showing (if I hit a set it's VERY hidden) but get no help and have to give up on 5th.
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| Back down to 36k, just over starting stack.
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| Another freeroll doesn't work out in 8/b. By 6th street I have 7-4-6-9-3-2, once again I know I'm low and get in a check-raise on 6th but 99 not good enough for high against a guy with all broadway cards showing.
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| Lose a pot, steal a pot. Win an ugly razz pot when I know I have a guy dead the river. He had three face cards and I had a made 9.
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| Into dinner break at 68K, average stack 57k, 56 left paying 15. Over to our new favorite pub in Orleans for a snack and a drink.
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| OK this is getting a bit long so I'll cut to the chase a bit.
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| I lose a chunk with split kings when I don't improve in stud and a guy who had an open ender on 4th street catches running 2 pair. Next hand get most of it back when I start with hidden kings and actually do improve to two pair.
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| Get to 30 from the money I chop another stud 8 pot when I knew I had a high straight and a guy was hoping to just hit a low (totally disconnected, only concern some hidden full house on the river) and he did river it.
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| Work my way up to 90k 24 from the money, just above average.
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| But then I go card dead. Can't get in a pot, people dropping like flies. Just win a small pot here and there taking down antes. At this point the bets are huge relative to stacks (6000/12000 limits) and people are folding anything but premium hands.
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| Fall under 60k when I pick up 6-2-A in Razz, only win bring ins and antes.
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| 10 from the money...getting close...
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| In stud I start with J-K-Q and call a complete by a 7 who was a big stack and completing about every other hand and stealing antes and bring-ins left and right. I pick up a ten on 4th, he gets a jack. He checks, I bet, I'm taking this to the end. He calls. I get a 10, he gets another J and check-calls me. I pick up a king so I have kings up hidden with a straight draw, he gets another 7 and is showing jacks up. The rest of my chips go in ... and beware the door card ... he has sevens full of jacks.
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| I have four outs all good, but no luck and I'm out 10 from the money. ARGH! What a cooler to end my day.
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| Pizza and sandwich for dinner, back up to the room.
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| From now on it's all Aria 1pm daily tournaments. Plan is every day but Monday, but we'll see how many players they're getting. I don't think I'll buy in to a 40 player tournament, but we'll see. I am here to play. |
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